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| Pastor Isaac Abiara |
Pastor Isaac Abiara, Assembly Pastor, Christ Apostolic Church, Vineyard of Comfort, Dallas Texas who is a biological son to the former General Evangelist of CAC Worldwide, Prophet S.K. Abiara in this interview speaks about his journey into the ministry, the five-fold ministry and many interesting issues. EXCERPT !
Kindly tell us your journey into the ministry. Did you become a Pastor because your biological father is a well known Prophet?
I didn’t plan to be a Pastor or Minister of God. When I was growing up I saw the stress my father was going through, the weight of the ministry on him, I didn’t want to be in the ministry. When we were growing up one of the things Baba always taught us is prayer. We always joked in our family that everybody took their kids on summer trips, but our own summer trip was at Ori-Oke Olorunkole. Whenever my father wanted to punish me, it was always going to Ori-oke. When we were there one day, a Prophet of God named “Baba Aluluogo” who is now late was prophesying and told my Dad that he sees me blowing trumpet among “white people.” This should be around 1986 or 1987. The Prophet said I will be a minister and God said He will put a black mark on my certificate that I won’t be able to do anything, but the work of the ministry. I thought it was a joke. Two years later I eventually travelled to USA in 1988. Baba sent me to Grace Theological Seminary. I didn’t want to go to the seminary because my mind was not there, my mind was somewhere else. Lo and behold I began to struggle a lot in USA until I began to remember the word of prophecy that has been said. As a result of that I began to slowly work myself into the ministry. I started at CAC Agbala Itura in Maryland, USA. Ministry is not something I intended to do, but it is God that purposely wants me there.
What did you have in mind to do before that prophecy came out?
I loved to study computer science because I like doing computer works.
Where is the place of personal conviction in your calling into the ministry?
My personal conviction came when things were not going right for me. It got to a level things were so hard and tough for me and I didn’t want to call my Dad. I was almost kicked out of school at Grace Theological Seminary because my mind was not there. There was a day my Dad came there to visit me. Until that time, I had never seen my Dad cried before. I saw a loving father who wants me to fulfill what God said about me. After he left I went to church in the evening of that day to seek the face of the Lord and things began to turn around for me.
Some people may believe because you are the son of a renowned Prophet ministry will be very easy for you. Can you share your experience with us?
It is not easy. The environment to do the work might be easier, but the actual work has nothing to do with you being a son of a renowned Prophet of God. Though you may have the pedigree, it doesn’t necessarily translate into ministerial success until you have an encounter with God. The pedigree would always be there, but it is now left to you to enhance the seed of God your parents have planted and make it to blossom. I was telling some people that when I was growing up I knew the God of my father, I didn’t know God for myself. The children of Israel said “our fathers told us about God.” My initial knowledge of God was based on what my father knew because when I was younger I was the one that read the Bible for him and through that I knew the scriptures. Meanwhile, there is a difference between knowing the Bible and having a revelation about it. I thank God I am able to know Him by myself.
To many people, Prophet Abiara is a genuine Prophet of God, to some he is a spiritual giant, but to you who is Prophet Abiara?
Wow! My Dad is a man of God to the core. I don’t see him as my biological father, but as a man of God. His relationship with God is so deep and genuine that you won’t be surprised God is doing what He is doing in His life. He doesn’t joke with his walk with God. At 78 years, going to 79, he still fasts for four to five days in a week. Sometimes he will fast for 21 days. He is always on the floor praying every single morning from 3am-6am.
On the physical side, he is a loving and caring father. He may not show it, particularly in the public. People in his generation don’t like to show emotions. As Yoruba people will call it, Baba is a genuine “Abiyamo.”
Baba has so much compassion for people. Considering his pedigree, if he wants to be riding jet he will do so, but he shows compassion on people. If you give Baba ten million naira today right in your presence he will be sharing it to people because he genuinely cares for everyone. I see more of his cares on how he took care of my late mum. He was there till the end for my mum. Throughout Mama’s sickness, Baba spent all he had to take care of her and that taught me a lot on how to be a better husband. He’s a man that generally cares for others.
What are the roles Mama played in the ministry of Baba?
I don’t think we can have this ministry without the input of my mum and that is why she cannot be forgotten. Baba has remarried and I thank God for the life of Mummy Grace Abiara, a wonderful woman.
When we were growing up, it was Mama that kept everything together including the ministry. Pastors used to come to Mama for advice. Agbala Itura would not have been what it is today without God and the sacrifice of Mama and her tenacity. She made the work easy for Baba to do what he does and it is a lesson for all ministers’ wives. If God has called your husband, give him that space to do what it is that God has called him to do. I am happy that we have Ministers’ Wives Fellowship in CAC. It shows we recognize our Mamas. Ministers’ wives paid a lot of sacrifice. My Mum was very loving and caring. She gave Baba timely advice. My Mum is the reason why Baba doesn’t sack or fire anybody. She can never be forgotten.
This day a lot of young ministers in Nigeria are being called “Apostle.” It is a title that some people thought has been basterdised. Considering your knowledge of the scripture and experience in the ministry, who should we call an Apostle considering what is obtainable these days?
An Apostle is someone who combines the five-fold ministry and then uses it in planting churches everywhere and propagating the gospel. It is someone who excels in the five-fold ministry. I know that in Christ Apostolic Church we don’t give anybody the title of an “Apostle”, but before anybody can be considered to be an Apostle, we need to see his work. There are some people who have one church and they call themselves Apostle. I think that is not proper. Meanwhile, there are people who have apostolic calling. You see them growing churches from scratch and planting churches in several cities around the country or the world. Those are the people I will call Apostles. When you look at Baba Obadare, he would be in that realm, but that title has been reserved for late Apostle Joseph Ayo Babalola and I think it is okay because sometimes we get so carried away with the title forgetting that what matters most is the work. People should not be interested in the title, but the work.
What is your advice to young ministers who refer to themselves as Apostles?
They should just focus on the work God has called them to do. They should forget the accolades.
Prophetic ministry is a ministry that majority of people are running into these days, particularly in this part of the world. Some people believe that is where the money and fame is. What is your own definition of that ministry?
I have to be careful with this question Brother Gbenga. I think many people have misunderstood what a Prophet is. When you study the Old Testament in the Bible, and you look at the Prophets in the realm of Isaiah, Jeremiah and core, they were the mouthpiece that tell the people what God is saying to the them, government or ruler of that time, but we have turned a Prophet to a fortune-teller or what the Bible calls a seer and people don’t understand what it is anymore. Many people we think are Christians, are not Christians but spiritualists. I grew up in the arm of a Prophet, when I see a true Prophet, I know. There is no way you can bamboozle me with prophecies. There are some people who do it for money. Meanwhile, we have some in our mission who do it genuinely because God has called them to the office of the Prophet. You will see that a lot of time Baba Abiara will go to the media and say “this is what God is saying to the government.” A lot of people have turned the office to seers’ office and they have got to a point where they begin to manipulate people. They are making merchandise of people and they are fulfilling what the Bible has said about false Prophets in the last days.
Cuts-in: What is your advice to ministers who are in Prophetic ministry, but God really called them to be Evangelists or Pastors?
It is possible that God gives you the grace to function in all offices, but I believe everyone has a primary call. For me I am a teacher. One of the people I look up to in the ministry is the new President of CAC Worldwide, Pastor S.O. Oladele. I have known him for so many years to be a teacher of the word. Baba Abiara used to invite him and Baba Oyeyemi to minister in Agbala Itura. God has given everyone his primary assignment. Baba Abiara usually says that he is not a Pastor. Tell Baba to come and conduct a wedding ceremony he won’t know what to do because that is not his office.
It seems the offices of a Prophet and Evangelist are somehow inter-related. What is the difference between the two offices?
God can call anyone as a Prophet. You can be a Prophet and not necessarily an Evangelist. The job of an Evangelist is to go out and talk to people about Christ, but it should not be limited to people who have the title alone. It should be everybody’s job. Prophet receives from God and speaks to the people. A Prophet can also be an Evangelist and an Evangelist can also be a Prophet. Due to what is obtainable in our great mission, some people have the title of an Evangelist, but not the calling. In most cases, someone who has a prophetic gift usually has an evangelist gift. They are two separate things, but sometimes they work hand-in-hand.
By your own perception, who is a Pastor?
A Pastor is someone who looks after the flock. He is a Shepherd who feeds the flock. A Pastor looks after the members of the church and does the administrative work of an Assembly. And that is why a pastoral viewpoint is going to be different from a prophetic or evangelistic viewpoint. A Pastor to an extent has to be a diplomat who is able to work all the functions of a particular local assembly.
What is your message to ministers who envy?
Don’t envy anybody. If you are called as a Minister and you are working in accordance to God’s call for your life, He will announce you to the world. We live in a culture where people think Prophets are the only set of people who have “power.” I see a lot of ministers who only pray for power. If that is what God has called you to do “fine!” You don’t need to be envious of anyone. I am a teacher and there is a grace of God that backs me up whenever I teach.
What is the role of a teacher in the five-fold ministry?
I will look at it from preaching and teaching points of view. When you preach, you are admonishing and encouraging people, but when you teach you break it down line upon line and precept upon precept. Let me give you an example using this topic “The Power of God Bless You” which I teach recently. A preacher will just preach “God bless you” and that is all. But as a teacher I have to start from looking at the meaning of “Power” and what does it mean that “God bless you.” You will begin to break it down one after the other by looking at the definition of power, kinds of power and several dimensions of power. We have spiritual power, political power, economic power and others. After explaining that, you move to “God Bless You.” What does the word “Bless” means? What does it mean to be blessed by God? How can you be blessed by God? What are the dimensions of blessings? That is how a teacher will look at the topic. A teacher would systematically go through the teaching of the word. Both preacher and teacher are conveying the word of God, but in different dimensions.
The Bible says the five-fold ministry is for the perfection of the saints. What is your advice to ministers regarding fulfilling the agenda of God for the ministries which is “perfection of the saints”?
That passage of the scripture stands on its own. Our motivation as ministers should not be for our personal interest. What I have seen often is that many ministers do the work for their own interests. Apostle Paul talked about people who preach for their own belly. That is not the reason God has given us the gift. The gift is to perfect the saints. If you are a Prophet, how is the word of prophecy you are speaking perfecting whom you are speaking it to? If you are an Evangelist, how is your work perfecting the church where you are being invited to minister? If you are a Pastor, how are you growing the church? Many people don’t know that when we fulfill our calling and primary reason, God will make us to live a better life. When you perfect the saints, you are adding value to them.